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Post by Spy227X on Mar 14, 2014 20:06:40 GMT
Your Username/Character: Spy227X/Jonathan Shackles Accused Player's Username/Character: PumpkingSlice/Valkyrie Time of Act: About 17:00 What did the accused player do?: Well, I get into a fight about Chemistry, and letting me in. I rage off and go to the bar. Earlier the AI said it had a law change, and I'm freaking bored because I can't do my job. Then, it BOLTS us into the bar. It says it won't let us out, even the innocent. Then, this random Engineer says to let us out, and it obeys the Engineer, saying that the Engineer is an Acting Head even though not having the ID or PDA of one. We then try to get it to state its laws, and BOOM! Engineer says to state laws, and they're unchanged. Wow. The AI lied. After that, I go off, do more things, and get consumed by a changeling. Evidence: Forgot to get logs, Echotango will back me up. Additional comments or notes: Would make a silicon ban request if there was any obvious disobeying of direct orders that weren't overridden, but I don't know what the Engineer said.
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witt
Moderator
The Banker
Posts: 238
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Post by witt on Mar 14, 2014 20:10:44 GMT
Considering you were locked down on orders of n Acting CE it is legit. A higher ranking member gave the order and you could not override.
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Post by yeahchris on Mar 14, 2014 20:13:12 GMT
As above. We already went over this in game. Higher ranking crew member, as appointed by a head of staff, had has his orders misinterpreted and thus the bar was locked down. You were lower ranking, could not override the AI's orders. Acting head of staff clarified his orders, door was unlocked, and everyone went about their business.
PS -- the ion law was removed.
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TimLynn
Lore Master
"Theres only one way to settle this, lets get a lion high off its tits" - Skype 31JAN2014
Posts: 184
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Post by TimLynn on Mar 14, 2014 20:20:26 GMT
I was the acting CE, I gave to order for lock down. The Ion law was removed before it stated its laws then I ordered it to ignore you.
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Post by Spy227X on Mar 14, 2014 20:26:01 GMT
You can't exactly order the AI to ignore someone. If that someone decides to break a law, the AI can't ignore that.
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Post by Spy227X on Mar 14, 2014 21:11:56 GMT
AI was also antag hungry. Excessively.
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Post by echotango23 on Mar 14, 2014 21:46:36 GMT
I don't expect or want any action to be taken, but I want pumpking to understand my distaste for his constant hawking on my character. It was clear from the first few moments, meta-ly that my character was the antag, yes. But I really don't understand how that justifies your constantly watching me just as I was going about my job, and even the denial of delicious proto-humans, I can understand that part, and besides it was an IC issue and has no place here. ((Tho it's right bullshit tbh))You were hunting me. Plain and simple, you saw what you wanted and went to get it, cut off every main, every avenue you could to make sure I couldn't shit on the porcelain throne without either being offered a ply of toilet paper or being reprimanded for wasting company time.
On another note this might be an IC issue, but I want to understand how you could refuse every single request from anybody that wasn't either acting, or a head of staff, and that might have just been the ion law that was removed, but at one point I asked you to open the door to the holodeck because my hand was hurt, pardon the fact that I can't offer receipts for said question, but you only responded with a no, and when I asked why, you simply said again, no.
I bring this to your attention because I presume that both laws 2 and maybe by a little stretch 3 mean you are just a tiny bit obligated to help us out. I won't be replying to this thread again, I've said my piece.
No reciepts/logs, I didn't have the foresight.
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Post by PumpkingSlice on Mar 14, 2014 22:55:11 GMT
{In regards to Echotango} {Security Matter/Unauthorized Equipment}For the first part echo, there was a lack of security on board. I saw a transaction made between you and the geneticist of receiving structural enzymes. A QM in the eyes of the AI should not be holding such an item as it is not part of their department or job. The constant hawking was due to the lack of security, so in basic terms, I wanted to make sure you didn't do shit. Which in OOC terms, I do agree with you, is bullshit and a fault upon my part as it more or less would not allow you to do your role as an antag. Though from an IC stand point you have to see that as an AI, I can interpretate that you are in possession of illegal (unauthorized gear) and potentially harmful items.
When security did arrive in the form of a Forensic Technician I alerted them via PDA about you holding this item. I did start to "lessen" the hawking on you though I kept an eye on you from time to time. I then recall you to sending me PDA messages about "giving out whatever as you please" and "that it is your job to deliver everything" though don't hold me on those quotes. I don't have logs for exact quotes to give. Now I know this was to add to the rp of your antag role, but a QM wouldn't be handing out anything that is not within their department or that is illegal/unauthorized. (Unless a staff member can hop in and lay waste to that logic to say QM's can give out what they want) {Requests}Now to the refusing requests bit. Firstly about your hand. I interpretated that as only one of your hands was injured and your other hand was still functional, allowing you to open the door. Unless you mentioned that BOTH hands were injured, then I miss read and I apologize in advance, if such is the case. There was also a medical staff asking if your hand is injured to have it checked at medical bay. {Ion law}Before we continue here, just to get the Ion law out of the way. It was basically anything that was asked (ends with a question mark) was to only be replied with "yes" or "no". Following this law meant I could not say anything else to a question aside from "yes" or "no". Back onto requests. Unless someone is dying or badly hurt, authorization is required to enter an unauthorized area. Just because you're in the department does not mean you have full access everywhere. If it did then security officers will be making their merry way into the armory and such. Pretty sure we all don't want that, which closes that case. Since the geneticist (spy) wanted chem access, I needed head authorization to allow them in. There were no heads aboard. When a captain and CE came he could have asked them, but he either didn't or he was denied. Swearing and spamming papers in my cameras don't help to this, to then attempt to back it up by saying they are "professional". That just doesn't go down well on my books, whether my books play a significant role that is. He then asked to check his records for chemistry training. His records don't state chemistry training. Being able to be the acting CMO does not mean you have training in chemistry, it just means you can act as CMO. Simple and straight. Before I move on to spy I'd like to thank you Echo for your view point as you kept it professional. I can see where I need to improve and how I can improve, again thank you. {In regards to Spy}Firstly, please back up your statements before "throwing" them out. Secondly I recall you saying in ooc "you want to rage because of the AI" or something along those lines. If you're taking it to such a level you need to take a break. {Heads/Acting Heads/Ignoring}Back to the points. If a head says "ignore you" it means....ignore you. Heads or acting heads orders overtake crew orders.
Istran was able to become an acting head because...well simply there was a head in the first place. As an AI I can not authorize you to become a head without a head already in place who has HoP authorization or higher. And if there is no head of your department in the first place, then you can't really become an "acting head" as there needs to be a head there already. Unless a HoP or Captain is on board.
Back to ignoring you. It was based upon your constant radio cluttering and complaining icly. A head/acting said to ignore you. I complied as it was authorized. This does not mean if you were dying I was to ignore you. That would be ICly and OOCly stupid and a very bad interpretation of a command. Which would call for a silicon ban, if repeatedly offended, for a non-antag AI. {Laws and Orders}Law stating. Unless a staff member (or someone else really) can prove me wrong, people don't seem to realize, AI and Borgs are authorized to deny law stating unless it is a head asking for it. They are also allowed to deny you or ignore you if they see that your request (or as some of you seem to take it, order) is non-helpful to the station, breaking any of their robotic laws (and if they so will, space law too, though silicon life does not need to follow space law in certain cases) or it is just outright idiotic and pathetic and a waste of time. They may be, as you call slaves, though it doesn't mean they are mindless. They CAN think for themselves to a certain degree. They are not your personal play things, they are there to assist the station, not do your dirty work. Too many times I've seen people just attempt to abuse borgs and treat them like they're always in the wrong because it's a borg. Anyways that's deviating from the matter at hand which is the complaint written in.
If a head states or orders to do something, I am to comply with that order no questions asked unless there is a valid reason not to do so in which I can converse with said order by head. I was ordered to lock down the bar. It was not harming anyone. It was not harming the station and it was not breaking any of my laws. Sure there were other people in there. People who were not actually doing anything to assist the station aside from the bartender who was happily (I hope) giving drinks away. The security officers had nothing to do even though I stated twice that they are required to do their job, which was to patrol the hallway. Now from their point of view it was a boring re-run over and over again which obviously leads to boredom which is understandable as to why they wished to stay in the bar. Now as the head ordered me to bolt down the bar, iirc, it was a reason to possibly attempt to stop your constant requests in IC chat of getting access and your complaints of the AI. Whether it worked or not is disregarded, it was an order that had no visible consequences unless a dramatic event took place. (I.e. a bomb suddenly popped up). To sum it up on terms of spy, from what I see is basically. Someone didn't get what they wanted. They got mad about it. The end. Put everything into spoilers because holy shit.
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TimLynn
Lore Master
"Theres only one way to settle this, lets get a lion high off its tits" - Skype 31JAN2014
Posts: 184
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Post by TimLynn on Mar 15, 2014 11:30:58 GMT
I don't expect or want any action to be taken, but I want pumpking to understand my distaste for his constant hawking on my character. It was clear from the first few moments, meta-ly that my character was the antag, yes. But I really don't understand how that justifies your constantly watching me just as I was going about my job, and even the denial of delicious proto-humans, I can understand that part, and besides it was an IC issue and has no place here. ((Tho it's right bullshit tbh))You were hunting me. Plain and simple, you saw what you wanted and went to get it, cut off every main, every avenue you could to make sure I couldn't shit on the porcelain throne without either being offered a ply of toilet paper or being reprimanded for wasting company time. On another note this might be an IC issue, but I want to understand how you could refuse every single request from anybody that wasn't either acting, or a head of staff, and that might have just been the ion law that was removed, but at one point I asked you to open the door to the holodeck because my hand was hurt, pardon the fact that I can't offer receipts for said question, but you only responded with a no, and when I asked why, you simply said again, no. I bring this to your attention because I presume that both laws 2 and maybe by a little stretch 3 mean you are just a tiny bit obligated to help us out. I won't be replying to this thread again, I've said my piece. No reciepts/logs, I didn't have the foresight. Echo in response to why he ignore the crew member, I had told him to as acting CE with CE approval. As to why he replyed with NO all the time, that was the Ion law still in effect I do belive. Also as I was in skype with pump for a not insignificant part of the round I do under stand that there was an valid IC reason for him following you around, although you will have to ask him to clarify.
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Post by Skull132 on May 18, 2014 13:37:01 GMT
2 months old, no further remarks to be made. Closing and archiving.
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