|
Post by sgtsammac on May 28, 2014 14:59:33 GMT
Alright Aurorians, serious discussion time, if medical were to be revamped. Should we follow Bay's route and remove the Genetics Research Lab, but keep cloning.
Or should we keep both.
Or should we remove both.
Or should we remove cloning.
My personal argument would be to remove both genetics and cloning on the grounds that, well lets look at each specifically.
Cloning: My reasons for removing cloning would be that it would remove the one trivial thing that stops people ingame from being scared of death, on the other hand though, it would mean people who die by no fault of their own are stuck as dead people until they are able to respawn.
Genetics Research: My biggest gripe with genetics is that whenever we do get a geneticist they will go and get the powers and give them to themselves and the rest of the crew, rather than saving the research to send to NanoTrasen, or they will steal someones DNA and go on a crew transforming rampage, or a hulk rampage, or something along those lines. Secondly, lore wise the NSS Aurora is a plasma research facility, not genetic or generic research facility.
|
|
gollee
Lore Master
I write things
Posts: 828
|
Post by gollee on May 28, 2014 15:07:50 GMT
I see cloning as an almost necessity for a space age game; however, that doesn't meant it couldn't be more hit and miss, or more expensive to carry out. That would balance it a bit better.
|
|
|
Post by Mewoykyinuis on May 28, 2014 15:13:42 GMT
It could have a high energy drain, couldn't it? Like, it won't be controlled via APC, it would have to be wired straight into the grid.
Like one clone being processed could cause a drain of 200k or something.
|
|
|
Post by moom241 on May 28, 2014 16:09:59 GMT
Maybe it should cost plasma, you know, because this is a plasma station. Like one cloning is worth say, 50 units.
|
|
|
Post by nikolaithebeast on May 28, 2014 16:26:25 GMT
After playing with genetic abilities, I have to say. Fun. But fucking rp worthless.
Instead, I'd have those minor genetic abilities be dormantly present in all players, but specific to them, and unknown what it is (random draw).
Not, say, hulk. But tk. Heat resistance. That shit.
This way, a person could only have one specific power a round.
Maybe add in a chance for it them to eat shit and get all mutated and funky, which could be solved by chemists. Or geneticists if they have some different machine.
Otherwise, I'd remove me both.
|
|
|
Post by nikolaithebeast on May 28, 2014 16:28:17 GMT
Oh, to elaborate.
You'd get injected or shoved into a machine, and it would spin the wheel of 'your dormant power' or 'random god awful mutation'.
Maybe have them extractable, but that might ruin the point.
|
|
Mr. Majestic
Developer
Majestic is the name, majestic is the game.
Posts: 485
|
Post by Mr. Majestic on May 28, 2014 17:43:28 GMT
Okay, the ONLY reason I'd like genetics to stay is because of *certain* powers that are *sometimes* fun... When controlled. That, and hot damn do I want to turn into a giant ape thing when I get hulk. (See nik's suggestion post about the hulk sprites)
That said, I think cloning kinda has to stick. Because in the lore NT practically started up it's mega'ness from making clonging affordable to the public scrubs of our universe, well. The richer public scrubs. But I guess making it more expensive or that it has to be authorized by a head of staff or something isn't that bad... But its still kinda weird because this is one of NT's shuttles which ought to be equipped in the latest of amazing cloning technology (which was their major breakthrough from the beginning of their take over of the universe) to ensure no profit is lost in employee replacement or something...
Final thought: Discard genetic research (and potentially save me A LOT of work) but keep cloning.
|
|
|
Post by subdigital on May 28, 2014 19:29:15 GMT
I personally hate cloning. Now wait, before you get a judgement on this let me finish.
If cloning stays in, and is so affordable and common then why the hell should anyone be afraid of death? Yes, pain isn't good but seeing as how you know cloning is a thing why would anyone not go out taking unnecessary risks. So unless you want to see people running into fire to pull out crew members then cloning needs to be revamped. CMD as well. The idea of CMD is just stupid. If you find out your a clone your mind is not going to be able to understand it. If we work on a station with tons of people and we know there is a section of medical devoted to cloning people can put two and two together. Our characters aren't idiots
If you wake up in a tube and get told, "You took a big hit to the head." that could work once or twice but not all the time.
I think cloning needs a huge re-vamp and re-look at. Because how it is now we are only acting like death is a big thing because we as players know it is, yet our characters do not. If cloning were to be taken out I believe more people wouldn't always be willing to be the good guy all the time. Death should have larger implications. Also, if someone dies because of something that wasnt there doing? An admin can just spawn em back.
"But Sub! What if there isnt an admin!?!?!?!1?!?!?!?!" Well then you just deal with it and wait, its a game after all.
|
|
Mr. Majestic
Developer
Majestic is the name, majestic is the game.
Posts: 485
|
Post by Mr. Majestic on May 28, 2014 20:07:48 GMT
I guess that's legit, maybe we could have all cloning staged at centcom? Also, in game suicides for whatever RP reasons would carry more weight.. I remember witnessing a suicide where they really didn't care. And just cloned 'im and exploited C.M.D to put him back to work as normal... THE GUY JUST KILLED HIMSELF DAMNIT
|
|
|
Post by Rusty Shackleford on May 29, 2014 11:09:19 GMT
I keep seeing the excuse "Why would anyone be afraid of death?"
BECAUSE IT'S DEATH AND IT'S SCARY
Cloning ICly isn't a surefire thing, it's a backup plan, yes, but it has a chance of failing, or causing genetic deformities. And there's also the various conundrums involved. If someone's found out that they're a clone, it can result in terrible repercussions for their psyche as they have to live with the fact that the original version of them died, and as they wonder if they're actually the real version of themselves. You can potentially develop dissociative identity disorder, bipolar disorder, paranoid personality disorder, dementia, etc etc. There's also the fact that a lot of IC religions are against cloning. Most people seem to forget that a particularly religious person might see cloning as a defacement of the natural order, and might see a clone as a soulless husk masquerading as the original person. Also, while cloning is relatively cheap, a random bum off the street can't afford it. Only the people who are relatively well off, or work in fields with high chances of death and mutilation involved, so they have it as part of their health plan.
There's lots of reasons people wouldn't get cloned. And those are reasons to keep it in.
Personally, what I think should happen is that the rest of genetics can be done away with if you so wish, but cloning needs to be made a lot more complicated. Being a three step process (stick 'em in, scan 'em, press the button) makes it something rather boring and mundane to perform. Make it something much more imposing, with multiple methods available. One method might have 5 steps, but has a 30/70 chance of working. Another method might have 16 steps, but has a much higher chance of being successful.
|
|
farcry11
Moderator
God Emperor of Pleb Kind
Strictly Platonic
Posts: 1,347
|
Post by farcry11 on May 29, 2014 17:42:10 GMT
Removing cloning is actually a wonderful idea. Having played some games recently where perma death is a factor, I can safely say that the effect on gameplay is very beneficial. Let's have a little situational example here.
A nuke squad invades the station, storms the bridge, and takes the captain hostage. The security team is sent to rescue him. Now, this can go two ways...
[With Cloning]
Biff Heroman, security officer, storms in to the bridge with a primed flash grenade. He is riddled with bullets by the squaddies, dying almost immediately, but the flashbang goes off. The squaddies are incapacitated by the flash and are apprehended by the rest of sec. Biff Heroman is later cloned without consequence.
[Without Cloning]
Fearing for their lives, security takes cover and either engages in a reasonable fight with the nuke squad, or perhaps negotiates. The situation is handled intelligently and reasonably, due to the constant threat of death.
Perma death hangs over players and characters alike as a constant reminder of the necessity of thought and rationality. Honestly, it can only create more RP, and would probably tangibly lower the frequency of ramboing.
To counteract the inability to rejoin by cloning, the red pawn timer could be lowered to perhaps 10-15 minutes.
|
|
Mr. Majestic
Developer
Majestic is the name, majestic is the game.
Posts: 485
|
Post by Mr. Majestic on May 29, 2014 18:28:36 GMT
I think we can agree that both having cloning and not having cloning could equally result in great RP, I mean lookit the things rusty mentioned. Those ideas make me itch to go around smacking anyone who has died and was cloned over the head with a bible, and declaring them demons. But then at the same time, a lot of people don't use cloning to RP anything. I think this can also happen with a permadeath setup, people will die. Respawn, and go on. "But 30 minutes, majestic! Half a fucking hour!!!" Most admins can shorten your respawn time, should they deem it okayz. (I mean if you gonna jump straight in to the situation you died in as a security officer, then you can wait 30 damned minutes)
|
|
|
Post by moom241 on May 29, 2014 18:55:35 GMT
I don't think people would really act more realistically even if there wasn't cloning. I rambo'd not because I thought I could come back, but because there was a degree of separation. I didn't care that the little spessman would die, because he'd be back in thirty minutes anyways.
|
|
|
Post by Rusty Shackleford on May 29, 2014 19:07:35 GMT
The best deterrent against rambo is liberal bannings! Bans for everyone!
|
|
|
Post by moom241 on May 29, 2014 19:30:19 GMT
First offense, perma-ban, no chance for appeal!
|
|
|
Post by Rusty Shackleford on May 29, 2014 20:28:37 GMT
Now you're talking!
|
|
bluesp34r
Moderator
Tsundere
Such a tsundere
Posts: 509
|
Post by bluesp34r on May 30, 2014 4:27:03 GMT
Cloning is a major part of SS13, as it is what keeps the characters coming back and back again after their demise. I feel that it should be kept for the sake of keeping certain rounds canon, even when a character dies and they are still being used.
Genetics though...I really....don't care much.
Never once have I seen a geneticist that does not use or display it's powers. This irritates me. If you are a scientist, and you are playing with something as sensitive as the human genome, and you get a syringe that's tested to give the user xray vision or turn them into the most iconic member of the Avengers...would you inject it in yourself? Maybe. But you shouldn't. Because when you operate science, you should know not to use your own tests on yourself. I have never seen a geneticist follow that rule of science.
Second, I see them giving out powers to other people as well. Granted this is illegal under space law without consent from a relevant head, it still happens. I think it shouldn't happen even WITH head approval because, well. You're augmenting the crew. Would NT think highly of that? Probably not. They want to keep their workers dumb-ed down, just doing their jobs. A janitor doesn't need hulk or telekinesis. They would likely be more trouble than they already are. A captain or security officer probably doesn't need it either. The purpose of genetic research should be...RESEARCH! Yet I don't ever see it happening!
Oh yeah, and people that set you up for a hulk enzyme and instead make you a monkey. That too.
|
|
|
Post by Trazz666 on May 30, 2014 6:11:43 GMT
My opinion on this should be pretty obvious if anyone knows me. Unlike the majority of players, I understand that death is an important part of gameplay instead of a game-stopper that requires a wittle babby ahelp to fix the hurt feewings. And even to a certain extent, I actually enjoy death in SS13 as I can ghost the station, make obscene ghost-gestures at the living, and haunt the toilets when ERP takes place; but I digress. In my rarely-listened-to opinion, I think cloning should be kicked and genetics should stay. Before my recent wedding made my trips to Aurora infrequent, I played alot of geneticist. I have to say, cloning is probably the less used part of the department. With genetics, you record disabilities, powers both minor and major, and can genuinely be a help to the station (such as providing sec with x-ray enhancements during code red). Cloning however, isn't a help, but a clean-up afterthought. Rarely do I ever get a body to clone that hasn't logged out due to rage-quit, waiting too damn long for body retrieval, chaplain-snatching, chef gibbing, or just good ol' fashion bald doctor incompetence. With the server's sudden case of deathaphobia, anyone killed outside of a blatant 'kill this person' objective gets admin rev'd anyways.
tl;dr Genetics good, cloning rarely used also, on the subject of griff geneticists, they're no worse than griffen sec, cargo, chem, or xenobio, they all get bans
...of course, that's IF anything should be changed at all. But even if the server does decide to take something out, my vote will be more ignored than a fart against the wind, but I just had to get it off my chest.
|
|
|
Post by sgtsammac on May 30, 2014 7:04:17 GMT
Just something I probably should have but didn't mention, I DO NOT mean to remove cloning from the lore or game, I just mean take the cloning lab out of the station. I.e. Getting bodies to CentComm becomes more important.
|
|
|
Post by Rusty Shackleford on May 30, 2014 12:27:31 GMT
I do believe that the overwhelming majority is still in favor of keeping cloning. Don't be hasty now, Sammy boy.
|
|