farcry11
Moderator
God Emperor of Pleb Kind
Strictly Platonic
Posts: 1,347
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Post by farcry11 on Aug 14, 2014 12:26:49 GMT
Am I the only person who thinks this is a bad idea? (Although I do appreciate the concept, and the design) Like, ever. I'd not even wanna see ERT with this. It's cool, but it's also four times more advanced then every other gun on station or in the hands of nanotrasen officials. Even the captains retro gun is suppose to be alien tech or some shit, and it barely even fires. Sure, it's cool, but what the hell value does anyone on station or at centcomms need this for? It's like shoving a Rail gun on the Hulk. The Hulk doesn't need a Rail Gun, he's the Hulk. The captain, HOS, or ERT don't need an infinite ammo gun that fires explosive, flaming and ballistic rounds. Rounds that stick in wounds and take forever to get rid of, because ballistics is broken as butts currently. Also, I thought we were trying to move away somewhat from referential items to other popular sci-fi, due to it making us look like a smorgasbord. That, and it's called a pistol. That's not a pistol shape. Pistols don't have a second stock. I am 90% sure someone has some way to prove I'm stupid for saying that. But by Nar'sie's testicles, gods no. If we are meant to be heavy RP, we need to actually try and keep tech from being wildly more or less advanced then each other for no reason. At this point, you're just nitpicking. The gun doesn't even have infinite ammo (leading me to assume you didn't read the whole post)- it has ammo equivalent to an energy carbine: you fire until you run out, and then you have to recharge the gun's ammo synthesizer at a recharger. The weapon is really just a jack of all trades and master of none. There are plenty of weapons we have that are somewhat easily attainable, which can kill quicker than this gun (laser cannons, SMGs, etc), you don't see us getting rid of them in the name of heavy RP. And why shouldn't we get more advanced tech? Why shouldn't we add new stuff? The gun isn't even that much more advanced than some of the tech we have on the station/in the universe (like the massive fucking bluespace cannons and the TELEPORTERS). If anything, a gun that switches ammo types via an internalized miniature autolathe-style synthesizer isn't so far fetched. I think we should be welcoming awesome new stuff such as this. It helps to make the server more unique.
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Post by nikolaithebeast on Aug 14, 2014 12:38:53 GMT
I meant infinite ammo, because ballistic weaponry is meant to be limited by material, if you can recharge it, that means infinite bullets.
Bullet's that stick in the wound.
Have you ever had like TWO in you? You take like ten damage every five steps. Try being filled with them.
And because all the things that can create other things use material for materials, or are the size of a small car, (Autolathe, Chem dispenser). Having a pocket sized gun that can make ammo with electricity means we should have chem dispensers that you can carry around, or...some other dumb nonsense.
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farcry11
Moderator
God Emperor of Pleb Kind
Strictly Platonic
Posts: 1,347
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Post by farcry11 on Aug 14, 2014 13:12:52 GMT
I meant infinite ammo, because ballistic weaponry is meant to be limited by material, if you can recharge it, that means infinite bullets. Bullet's that stick in the wound. Have you ever had like TWO in you? You take like ten damage every five steps. Try being filled with them. And because all the things that can create other things use material for materials, or are the size of a small car, (Autolathe, Chem dispenser). Having a pocket sized gun that can make ammo with electricity means we should have chem dispensers that you can carry around, or...some other dumb nonsense. That's not a terrible idea, actually... Chemistry on the fly would be useful.
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gollee
Lore Master
I write things
Posts: 828
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Post by gollee on Aug 14, 2014 13:23:02 GMT
Going with Nik, great concept, awesome ideas, but i don't think it is either needed, or especially useful in game, though it could be used in very specific events, and it would be nice to have spawnable to admins if they wanted to get in and turn a griefer to paste.
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Post by VikingPingvin on Aug 14, 2014 14:17:29 GMT
Sudden idea: DNA lock like the one in mechs?
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incognitojesus
Chief Engineer
Certified Super Model
I need to re-learn how to sleep.
Posts: 208
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Post by incognitojesus on Aug 14, 2014 15:19:41 GMT
Today, in the early 21st Century, we're able to do magnificent things when it comes to materials manipulation. Screens that can be bent and rolled up like the Sunday newspaper, pens that can literally write in thin air (LIX on Kickstarter), 3D printers that are the size of tablets. We also have made many, many advances in the development of new weaponry (or what I like to call, "How to blow people up, fill them full of holes, and char their body beyond recognition before they hit the floor"). So, is it REALLY farfetched to say that in four hundred forty-two years from now that we'd be able to create a gun (a very expensive one, mind you) that can create its own ammunition?
[Sent from a shuttle drifting aimlessly in the far reaches of the known universe via Tapatalk on a ZTE Warp.]
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susan
Detective
Posts: 30
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Post by susan on Aug 14, 2014 15:38:49 GMT
Then I'll hold further comment until I can see the actual code, and ponder on its actual lethality. /obj/item/weapon/gun/energy/lawgiver name = "Lawgiver Mk II" desc = "A highly advanced firearm for the modern police force. It has multiple voice-activated firing modes." icon_state = "lawgiver" item_state = "gun" fire_sound = 'sound/weapons/Gunshot_smg.ogg' fire_delay = 6 automatic = 0
projectile_type = "/obj/item/projectile/bullet/midbullet3" origin_tech = "combat=6;magnets=5;plasma=3"
var/ammomode = 0 var/dna //dna-locking the firearm proc/hear(message, source as mob) return
/obj/item/weapon/gun/energy/lawgiver/attack_self(mob/user) if(dna != null) return else src.dna = user.dna.unique_enzymes user << "\blue You feel your palm heat up as the gun reads your DNA profile." Fire(atom/target as mob|obj|turf|area, mob/living/user as mob|obj, params, reflex = 0) if(src.dna != user.dna.unique_enzymes) user << "\red You hear a soft beep from the gun and 'ID FAIL' flashes across the screen." playsound(user, 'sound/weapons/smg_empty_alarm.ogg', 40, 1) user << "<span class='danger'>[src] blows up in your face!</span>" explosion(get_turf(user), 0, 0, 1, rand(1,2)) user.drop_item() del(src) return 0 ..() hear_talk(mob/living/M in range(0,src), msg) hear(msg) return
hear(var/msg) var/list/replacechars = list("'" = "","\"" = "",">" = "","<" = "","(" = "",")" = "") msg = sanitize_simple(msg, replacechars) if(findtext(msg,"single shot") && (src.dna==usr.dna.unique_enzymes) && (src in usr.contents)) ammomode = 0 charge_cost = 50 fire_sound = 'sound/weapons/Gunshot_smg.ogg' usr << "\red [src.name] is now set to single shot mode." projectile_type = "/obj/item/projectile/bullet/midbullet3" automatic = 0 fire_delay = 6 else if(findtext(msg,"rapid fire") && (src.dna==usr.dna.unique_enzymes) && (src in usr.contents)) ammomode = 1 charge_cost = 150 fire_sound = 'sound/weapons/Gunshot_smg.ogg' usr << "\red [src.name] is now set to automatic fire mode." projectile_type = "/obj/item/projectile/bullet/midbullet3" automatic = 1 fire_delay = 0.5 else if(findtext(msg,"high ex") && (src.dna==usr.dna.unique_enzymes) && (src in usr.contents)) ammomode = 2 charge_cost = 200 fire_sound = 'sound/effects/Explosion1.ogg' usr << "\red [src.name] is now set to high explosive mode." projectile_type = "/obj/item/projectile/bullet/gyro2" else if(findtext(msg,"stun") && (src.dna==usr.dna.unique_enzymes) && (src in usr.contents)) ammomode = 3 charge_cost = 50 fire_sound = 'sound/weapons/Taser.ogg' usr << "\red [src.name] is now set to stun mode." projectile_type = "/obj/item/projectile/energy/electrode" automatic = 0 fire_delay = 6 else if(findtext(msg,"hotshot") && (src.dna==usr.dna.unique_enzymes) && (src in usr.contents)) ammomode = 4 charge_cost = 200 fire_sound = 'sound/weapons/lasercannonfire.ogg' usr << "\red [src.name] is now set to incendiary mode." projectile_type = "/obj/item/projectile/bullet/incendiary/shell" automatic = 0 fire_delay = 6 else return All projectiles that it fires are custom. It has about a twenty round capacity when firing normal rounds and each bullet fired does 10 damage and does not embed for the sake of simplicity. Gyro2 is a child of the gyro round with a highly nerfed explosion that is a little larger than a PDA explosion totaling about 20-30~ brute on a direct hit. The projectile itself does not do any damage. The incendiary shell does about 15 when it hits the target and then lights them on fire, which can be extinguished with a fire extinguisher or water. That, and it's called a pistol. That's not a pistol shape. Pistols don't have a second stock. I am 90% sure someone has some way to prove I'm stupid for saying that. It actually is a pistol. This is the design of the Lawgiver.
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Post by nikolaithebeast on Aug 14, 2014 17:41:31 GMT
Knew I was wrong.
But otherwise, if be damned if this was a civilian weapon. Even if it looks rad.
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Post by Rusty Shackleford on Aug 14, 2014 20:10:07 GMT
DOEET
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Chaznoodles
Moderator
Broodhost
Syndicate CEO
Posts: 198
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Post by Chaznoodles on Aug 14, 2014 20:13:18 GMT
Here's a question. Why do we need yet another thing that people will use to kill other people instead of roleplaying?
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susan
Detective
Posts: 30
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Post by susan on Aug 14, 2014 20:16:48 GMT
Because killing people is roleplay.
To clarify:
If I as a security officer am forced to kill someone in the line of duty, funnily enough, pulling the trigger on the gun and shooting them is a type of roleplay. Not all roleplay is emotes and say, actions are also roleplay - this gun is no more dangerous than the other guns that are already in the game, and many are already more dangerous. Look at half of the weapons the ERT is kitted out with.
I don't know what you want me to say to you.
Sometimes you have to kill someone else. Roleplaying with them before is a must-have, be it over the radio or in person or whatever, but the act of ending someone's life is an IC action.
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duck
Anomalist
Posts: 124
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Post by duck on Aug 15, 2014 1:03:04 GMT
Alsoalso, the argument against rechargeable ballistic weapons is silly.
Hacked autolathe. Revolver rounds. Three shots to hard crit. Seven per box. Seven fit in your internals box. 49 rounds plus 7 in the gun. 56 rounds total. Rough estimation of 18 people killable with bullets alone, and that's pumping 180 brute into each, which is honestly unnecessary. Actual numbers killable are somewhere in the high 20s when mixed with chance decapitations and brute-damage finishers. Two backpack slots. Production costs easily met and then some by metal lying around in science or in the QM, which is where the autolathes are.
Protolathe. SMG rounds. 7 bullets to hard-crit. 36 per box. 252 for one internals box. 18 in the gun for 270 total. Enough bullets for between 38 and 39 people. Two backpack slots. Production costs in silver add up to less than half a bar.
Armoury. Laser rifle. 4 lasers to hard-crit. 20 per laser. Does not fit in internals box. Does not fit in backpack. Enough lasers to send 5 people into hard crit. Cannot be recharged on-the-go. Must find a charger.
I don't know if you understand this, but the bullet synthesizer is actually a drawback. If you have any of the two currently available ballistic weapons and about five minutes, you will not conceivable run out of bullets until after you've shot up the whole station and half an hour later you're bored and shooting windows open because bullets. Even if your aim is horrendous. Energy weapons need to be conserved. You can't reload them anywhere. You can't carry half as many shots with you.
Being frightened of theoretically infinite bullets is absurd. Because people with a very finite amount of bullets can kill you and everyone else just fine already. And their finite amount is more portable and more accessible than the theoretically infinite.
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bluesp34r
Moderator
Tsundere
Such a tsundere
Posts: 509
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Post by bluesp34r on Aug 15, 2014 5:06:55 GMT
If this is going in.
It should replace every weapon in the armory for ERT. Because it stuns, it shoots, it sets shit on fire, it explodes...
You know what. Maybe not even ERT. Deathsquad.
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Mr. Majestic
Developer
Majestic is the name, majestic is the game.
Posts: 485
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Post by Mr. Majestic on Aug 15, 2014 5:10:25 GMT
I still think the rechargable bullets is silly. Like Nik said, all other stuff we have that can make stuff is not easily moveable. Now you wanna put it in a (rather large) pistol? Taking away the space that'd be needed for the barrel and the different components and all that, how big is this little bullet maker actually gonna be? Size of a cell phone? Hot damn. Also, don't these things STILL need materials? Its basic physics, peepul. Something can't come from nothing. And if you're gonna go and tell me "lul no it usez de powar to mek de bullets" you're fucking retarded. The power is (naturally) used to keep the whatever it is that makes the bullets running. But now stuff like this (autolathe, protolathe etc) need basic stuff like metal and glass and shit.
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gollee
Lore Master
I write things
Posts: 828
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Post by gollee on Aug 15, 2014 7:22:12 GMT
Bullet synthesis from a wall charger is... odd, the amount of energy required to create matter is insane, especially if you want that matter to be a very specific thing, like an explosive bullet, you are looking at plugging that thing into the singularity for ten hours to get half a bullet.
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Post by nikolaithebeast on Aug 15, 2014 11:50:18 GMT
As gollee said, even the chem fabricator is using some sort of base material to then create chemicals.
This is just NOT viable for in game use by civilians. It's heavily overpowered compared to any ballistic or laser weapon, due to it not requiring anything more then a battery and a charger to fire EXPLOSIVE rounds.
Yeah, the design and code is cool, but if we added every thing thats been coded in for civilian use, we'd have alien rocket launchers, M1911A-B Destroyer pistols and Grenade launchers lying around.
It would probably not even be useful for the ERT, because the ERT's MAIN staple is ballistic weapons, so that they dont have to hunt down a recharge port when they run out of ammo while shooting at a wizard.
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Post by Rusty Shackleford on Aug 15, 2014 13:28:14 GMT
Make it the ultimate research weapon, with super high resource costs. Do it. Because I highly, highly doubt you'd have people abusing it and mass-manufacturing them if they have to spend a few hours mining just to make one.
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Post by nikolaithebeast on Aug 15, 2014 13:35:37 GMT
Make it an artifact, or a crate drop, thats super rare.
Make it hidden on the derelict, inside a fake room.
Anything that makes it really hard to find, or difficult to acquire, and I'm alright with it being in game somewhere.
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susan
Detective
Posts: 30
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Post by susan on Aug 15, 2014 15:48:46 GMT
You are arguing over basic fluff that can easily be changed. The Lawgiver actually, in Dredd's lore, has the bullets change themselves when a voice command is given. May as well just say the gun screws new bullet heads on the casings before they are fired. This is just NOT viable for in game use by civilians. It's heavily overpowered compared to any ballistic or laser weapon, due to it not requiring anything more then a battery and a charger to fire EXPLOSIVE rounds. This is entirely incorrect. If you'd had read Duck's post you would already be aware of why. None of the firing modes even do over 30 damage compared to the other available weapons on the station. It is an energy gun because ballistic weapons take projectiles from the ammo casings they fire and trying to code one with different types would be nigh impossible and absolute ass considering the moment you change modes the magazine still uses the old bullets so nothing will fire and as such it would be redundant. Needing to be recharged is a handicap, not a plus.
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Post by Rusty Shackleford on Aug 15, 2014 16:41:58 GMT
Hue. Sue's right about the fact that Lawgivers use a universal clip loaded with unspecialized projectiles. Think thermal clips in the Mass Effect universe, which allow all sorts of different weapons to fire vastly different projectiles.
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